SAGES Stories Episode 2
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Ameer Farooq 00:00
Welcome to all our Cold Steel listeners. We are excited to be collaborating with the Society of American Gastrointestinal and Endoscopic Surgeons or SAGES. As many of you know, SAGES produces a podcast called The SAGES Stories Podcast, where they highlight some of the amazing work SAGES members have been doing. In this episode, SAGES Stories interview one of our favourite former guests, Dr. Liane Feldman, the outgoing president of SAGES. If you like this episode, head over to the SAGES website where you can listen to all the SAGES Stories episodes.
Announcer 00:48
SAGES stories
Shirin Towfigh 01:04
Welcome to today's episode of SAGES Stories, the official podcast of SAGES, the Society of American Gastrointestinal and Endoscopic Surgeons. Please make sure to hit the like button and subscribe, so you can stay up to date with our most recent episode, and enjoy the show!
Kevin El-Hayek 01:23
Welcome to the second episode of SAGES Stories, where we shine the light on some of SAGES most impactful leaders. I'm your cohost, Dr. Kevin El-Hayek, coming to you from fantastic Cleveland, Ohio.
Shirin Towfigh 01:34
And I'm Dr. Shirin Towfigh joining you from sunny California. Today's guest is Dr. Liane Feldman. She's joining us from Montreal, Canada. Welcome to the show.
Liane Feldman 01:44
Thank you.
Shirin Towfigh 01:45
Are you really in Montreal?
Liane Feldman 01:48
I'm really in Montreal; we can't really leave.
Shirin Towfigh 01:54
This is true. How are you doing in Montreal? Are you seeing patients? Are you operating?
Liane Feldman 02:01
Yeah, we're probably a few weeks behind you guys - at least in California. But we're sort of on the upswing again. So we're getting organized again. But so far, yeah, we're operating, we're seeing patients.
Kevin El-Hayek 02:17
So, we have to actually put this disclaimer that you're officially a podcast pro, because you are now the guest of the second episode of SAGES Stories, which means you've done as many podcasts in a month, as we have done in our entire history, which is two by the way. So, that does make you a podcast pro - I don't know if you realize that.
Liane Feldman 02:44
I think we've all done one podcast.
Kevin El-Hayek 02:50
We actually we had the chance to listen to your hot-off-the-press podcast from the Canadian Journal of Surgery, podcast, Cold Steel, and I do have to tip my hat to the hosts because they stole some of our thunder in getting to you first. So I would definitely direct our listeners to that podcast on Cold Steel as it was fantastic. Shirin and I will do our best to cover some different topics than Ameer and Chad did.
Shirin Towfigh 03:19
Yeah, it's only fair that Canadians get the first shot at you. That's true [background comment from Kevin]. So on SAGES Stories, we're a podcast that really wants to focus on the story behind our guests. I love hearing stories. It's one of the best parts of what I do as a surgeon. And so we're really excited to get to know your story, because it's pretty amazing. Let me just say, many of our listeners already know you are the current president of SAGES. And as a side gig, you're also a professor and Chief of the Division of Surgery at McGill University, and Program Director of the Minimally Invasive Surgery fellowship. So they're super lucky to have you in their leadership. Maybe you can first start by telling us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, and what is your story.
Liane Feldman 04:09
Yeah, I will. And I think ... [back to the] introduction part. I'm not the program director anymore, but I know that's because of Google and they did the same thing on the Cold Steel [podcast]. But now that I've handed the reins over to Melina Vassiliou for that we do have great depth here. We're lucky and she's doing a great job with that.
Kevin El-Hayek 04:35
So we were fooled by Google again; we should have known better. So your actual title is the Edward W. Archibald Professor and Chair of the Department of Surgery at McGill University and Surgeon-in-Chief at the McGill University Health Centre.
Liane Feldman 04:56
My story, how I got started in SAGES?
Kevin El-Hayek 05:00
How about how about take us back? You know, even further than that. Just tell us a little bit about yourself. And you know where you grew up and your journey?
Liane Feldman 05:14
Well, I'm at McGill University in Montreal. With a brief time away, I'm almost a McGill lifer here. I grew up in Montreal. I love the city. I love the diversity in the city. We have a great history in Montreal, in Quebec. It's a Francophone city, Francophone province, [Kevin says Bien sur]. Oui, c'est ça. Exactement. And, I love living here, born and bred; my mother's also a Montrealer and my father came from Toronto, to do his residency. He's a psychiatrist and met my mom, and they stayed. But, it was always my dream to be a doctor. My mom says that since I was three or four years old, and somebody asked me (this is my mom's version) what I wanted to be when I grew up, I said a nurse. And that person said, "Why not a doctor?" And I said, "Well, can girls be doctors?" And although I think our kids would sort of say the opposite now. But yeah, so I was just really passionate about it. It was my dream. It's always been my dream. That's was always my goal, and I feel so fortunate that I was able to get there.
Shirin Towfigh 06:49
That's really fabulous. So fun fact, I actually applied to McGill for medical school. My mentor at the time, in undergraduate was this doctor at UCLA, Dr. Solle. And he was the most intelligent and the most loved doctor in the entire campus. And I wanted to be exactly like him. So okay, "Where did you go to medical school?" I want to go there. So I did apply to McGill. So I almost went there. But maybe you can tell us how McGill shaped your current experience and your journey, because you met a lot of really amazing people at McGill. And they've been very influential in who you are now.
Liane Feldman 07:30
Well, besides my classmates, who we meet, our peers are often very influential. And obviously, we all made great friends in medical school, I'm still great friends with so many. And also, I think in Montreal, or maybe in Canada, we tend not to maybe be as mobile as you guys. And so I work with a lot of the people I went to school with, around me, which is great. I do recall that a person that ended up having a very big influence on me, was Gerry Fried. And I remember that as a first-year medical student - I don't know about you guys, but I really did not like my first year of medical school because of my undergraduate experience. I loved it. I was at Brown in Providence, Rhode Island, and it was very Kumbaya, and we were all there to learn and be better people and so forth. [Kevin says, "And no grades, right?"] And yeah, you could take everything Pass/Fail. Well, you wouldn't take your premed classes Pass/Fail, but everything else you could take. And so when I got to medical school, because it had always been my dream, I would say it was a bit of an adjustment that first year. And as we sat in these big, big amphitheaters and had people lecturing at us, most of it was not the most inspiring, let's say. But I do remember the person that came to talk to us about GI hormones was Gerry Fried. And I remember, and I don't know, you know, why you remember these things, but it was just an actually interesting, engaging lecture that made sense that I could connect with maybe what I imagined to be sort of clinically relevant.
Kevin El-Hayek 09:19
So that was your first year of medical school?
Liane Feldman 09:24
Yes, he came to give a one-hour lecture and I just said to myself, this is actually an interesting lecture. And this seems like a pretty good person. And of course, he's been my mentor really, ever since. So that was somebody that I remember did have an impact.
Shirin Towfigh 09:41
That's why it's so important for surgeons to be involved in the first two years of medical school. You don't see it that often.
Kevin El-Hayek 09:49
And for our listeners, I think most will know that Dr. Fried is clearly the brain behind what many of us know as FLS or Fundamentals of Laparoscopic Surgery, among other things, and seemingly following in his footsteps, Liane, you codeveloped FUSE. And we heard a lot about that from the last podcast. But what happened from there? You met him when you were first year. Did you approach him when you were a medical student? And then that relationship developed? How did that further blossom because it truly is fascinating to hear that.
Liane Feldman 10:30
I don't know how our mentors choose us or we choose our mentors. And if we're lucky, we've had mentors along the way. And I certainly feel very fortunate that I did have a great role model and someone that I felt was always looking out for me. I applied to residency in general surgery, obviously, at McGill. And I think I may have actually just been randomly matched with him, and who knows how these things work [Shirin says "That's a lottery]. Yeah. Or maybe not. But I think it was actually part of the program. But I do remember that as a as a second year resident, and I don't remember that we met really regularly. But I do remember, as a second-year resident he invited me and Hillel, who's my husband now but we weren't married then, to his home with him and Karen for Friday night dinner. And I just remember sitting on his sofa with Hillel and just starting to get to know them. Karen, many SAGES folks know Karen because she travelled with him [Gerry] a lot. And [they are] just the most outgoing, generous, fun people. And so I'm not sure if he picked me or I picked him, but I think part of what he demonstrated was the really key role that family played. I mean, I loved working with Gerry, clinically, and he's a really good doctor and an excellent surgeon and like a person that you want to be with in the OR. You know, he was never angry in the OR. He loved to be in the OR and so that rubbed off. But also, when he wasn't on call, he wasn't in the hospital. He loved to play sports. He talked about his kids, he talked about his wife, we knew his wife. I don't think it was on purpose, but he modelled sort of a person who loved his work, was passionate about it, and happy. And I think he modelled being able to fit all those things in it really well.
Shirin Towfigh 13:19
That's really amazing. I think happy surgeons are always great mentors and role models. Yeah. And the reverse is probably also true. Keep the unhappy surgeons away from our trainees. So did you meet Hillel because of Gerry Fried?
13:35
No, no, no, at the beginning of my second year in medical school, we just met through a friend. But we got married when I went into the lab in the beginning of my third year.
Shirin Towfigh 13:52
And did you get involved with SAGES because of Gerry?
Liane Feldman 13:57
Oh, yes. I got involved with SAGES because of Gerry, I think, as many people did. I ended up being his fellow. That's another story how that happened. In 1999, I was his fellow and he brought me to the meeting in San Antonio with Karen, where we had a little poster or something like that. And I found my people for sure.
Kevin El-Hayek 14:24
You know, I think sometimes we don't really hear about families a lot. And I think it was really neat to hear how impactful his family was and was bringing you along in the in those years. Tell us a little bit about your family and the journey that they've taken with you through this.
Liane Feldman 14:46
I guess when you're born you don't have much of a choice, but we had Zachary ... in January of my Chief Resident year. And I remember at the time - my program director - I was nervous to tell her that I was pregnant, because I thought, it's gonna really mess up her schedule. I was a little bit sheepish. But she was so positive and welcoming. And in my residency, I would say, everybody was really accommodating and made it made it easy. And then I had a second child, Arielle, a daughter when I was a fellow. And that was probably the most straightforward just because nobody really needs you as a fellow - you're sort of in the way - so that was good. And then we had Jonah, the third, the baby, who's 18 now, when I was fairly early in practice, and that was probably the one that was the most difficult to figure out because you're in practice, and now other people are covering for you and helping with your patients. But yeah, and, you know .. do you guys have kids?
Kevin El-Hayek 16:21
I have three kids and you might hear them playing piano in the background. Yeah, yeah. They're 12, 10 and four.
Shirin Towfigh 16:31
Oh, my, I have two God daughters, and they're an entire continent away.
Liane Feldman 16:35
So it's obviously very chaotic. But, we had a lot of help - family and professional help, to help with the kids. Hillel, my husband, is a lawyer, he worked, he still works very hard as well. And we had a lot of help and it was pretty busy and chaotic at the beginning of your career, and you're trying to do your research - and you're doing all this stuff at the same time. But you know, it is a time and it passes. And we're at a different stage now. But one of the things that I think for us for family time, and one of the things we're lucky about in Montreal, and a lot of places like this, is that we have a place that we could go to on the weekend, when we could, which is about an hour and a half north of the city, which is a really great aspect of Montreal. It's like a lake, cottage country, a lot of lakes and skiing. And that really was where we had our family time.
Shirin Towfigh 17:47
How soon did you get involved in the society itself? And how did you work your way through the ranks to be now President?
Liane Feldman 17:55
Well, it's kind of funny. So I started in 1999, just being a SAGES member. And I just really focused on SAGES as my surgical society. And my journey is I think like a lot of things ... maybe it's not a ladder to the top, it's more of a jungle gym, or maybe you go up and down a little bit or around and around a few times. So one thing that happened to me was that I really wanted to, in my academic work, do surgical-outcomes work. And at the time, there was an Outcomes Committee. It was chaired by Bill Traversal, who was like a guru in this area. I read all his stuff. And he was the chair. And I'm sure Gerry had a lot to do with it. But I ended up being on that committee. And it was like, I have the letter from SAGED, "Congratulations, we welcome you to the committee." And you know how it is on a committee - you have to participate; it's still the same at SAGES [Shirin says, very active participation.] Yeah. So, the first time I went, I was not on the committee yet. I was sort of auditing it, so it doesn't really count. And then the next time there was a SAGES meeting, I wasn't able to go. That was early in my career, I'd had a very difficult situation clinically, and I wasn't able to attend the meeting. So I missed that one. And then the next American College meeting was September 11, right after September 11. And people weren't really traveling - it was October of that year, so I didn't go. So I missed all the meetings. And then I got like, six months later, another letter from SAGES saying "Thank you so much for participating in the committee, but we're going to rotate you off, but thank you so much." Thanks but no thanks [laughs]. So that was my first foray into committee work. And I was really disappointed. For the next few years, of course, I just loved attending the meeting. We ended up - our research group - really focusing on presenting our stuff at SAGES. And I think some of the things that get you noticed at the meeting are stuff like just, you know, going to the sessions, asking questions, going up to the mic, especially in the little paper sessions, where you really meet other people, kind of doing the same stuff that you do - a lot of young people. And that was basically what I did for several years at SAGES until I got another opportunity to join a committee. It was the QoS, or Quality Outcomes and Safety Committee. And at that point, I was on that committee for a few years, and then when Steve Schwaitzberg was the incoming president, his main project was going to be FUSE. And he tapped Dan Jones to lead that - I'm sure you all know Dan. And then I was asked to join as a co-chair with Pascal Fuchshuber, I think as the education-type of person in that group, and then through that, I was made co-chair of QOS, because FUSE was originally housed as a task force of QOS. And then, when it became its own project, I co-chaired the FUSE committee and the FUSE project with Pascal, and Dan was the chair. So ... I think, looking back, it's nice to be given a project that kind of has a deliverable, that's a beginning and an end, that has a lot of work, it's got a lot of retreats, and there's a lot of work to do. And you do the work, and people say thank you for doing the work, and the SAGES staffers kind of notice you for doing the work. And then you have this thing that you can deliver, and it's done. And Dan is very good at that; he's a great starter and a great finisher, a great closer. Not everybody can see a project to the end.
Kevin El-Hayek 22:32
That's just great advice, I think, especially as we look at so many of the projects that come across these committees. It sounds like you would say "Choose the projects that have a defined beginning and end."
Liane Feldman 22:47
Yes. I think it helps also in your visibility. And of course, then once you're co-chair or chair, you start to be invited to the leadership retreat, or you may have to present something to the board, so I think that's where you have the opportunity to make an impact. Now, to be honest, I knew nothing about energy, nothing about electricity, physics, all that stuff. So I definitely had to really study and really learn it through the FUSE program. And that's another thing I think that I've learned along the way. When you're asked to write a book chapter, maybe, and we all were as residents or fellows - stuff that you don't really know, you're not an expert in; you sit down and you review the literature and you read everything there is to know about it, and you watch all the videos, and then you are the expert, and I think say yes to things, because you don't know where it's gonna land you.
Shirin Towfigh 23:46
And now FUSE, which is Fundamentals of Surgical Energy is now mandatory as part of surgical education. That's a big deal.
Liane Feldman 23:56
It's not mandated by the board the way FES and FIS is, but the Fellowship Council is mandating it. It's part of our SAGES certification in fellows. And ... I would make a little pitch for FUSE, because all the didactics, like all the fundamentals, didactics, there's no cost to go through them. You can use it for CME, it's got built-in questions and then if you want to get the certification, then go ahead and get the certification. It's an exam and stuff like that, but just to learn it, I think it's really worthwhile.
Kevin El-Hayek 24:33
So I'm going to shift gears, just briefly to talk a little bit about your work in education. One of the hats I wear as a third-year medical student clerkship director - and I love that, despite all the many responsibilities you have and had, you clearly invested in the program, even though you're no longer the program director, clearly you were for a long time because it still says it on Google. So, in the clerkship role, I often come across students who are torn between the medical and surgical field; they'll come in and say, "I haven't decided whether I'll do a medical field or surgical field." And I'm often very pleased when we've converted someone to choose surgery. And so you must also run into many medical students. So how do you counsel undecided students on choosing a field?
Liane Feldman 25:31
I think it's an emotional decision. I think these things are chosen by the heart in many ways. You know, when I decided to go into surgery, because it was definitely my dream; my main role model, besides my parents, was Hawkeye Pierce from MASH, and I wanted to be like him, minus the alcoholism, but with the healthy cynicism there and humor, but then I kind of convinced myself not to do that, for many reasons, you know, quote, unquote, lifestyle reasons, that kind of thing. And then I did my surgery rotation; I did it very late in my clerkship, and I just in the OR, and given things to do in the OR, it just clicked for me. I just really felt that that was a way I wanted to dedicate my life, you know, despite the ups and downs, and being a surgeon is hard. I don't just mean the hours, I mean, emotionally. You know, we get the highs and we get the lows, and there are things that I think that we all have experienced with patients that never go away; you incorporate them and you learn from them, or they affect you - forever. And I think in a way that I think probably is unique to working with your hands and having patients put that kind of trust into you. But when I talk to students, I think that if they love to be in the OR, then that's what they should focus on. And I think you do really need to love to be in the OR, because otherwise, it's probably not worth it to convince yourself otherwise. And I think one of the maybe losses that we've experienced over the time that I've been on faculty in a teaching role is less time that we have with students and less time that they have to see what it's like to be on call, what it's like to work at night, what it's like to be alone, what it's like to be the first call to the trauma, and to really live that and to make your decisions based on that. Not that we had so much information, but I feel like we had a little more knowledge of what that was like. I think it's unfortunate that there's not as much call maybe on an elective or something like that. And for people that really stick it out. But I think you need to know what you're getting yourself into. But if you love it, if you think you love it, if you're passionate about it, if you dream about it, like I think we all do, even now, you know, I come home, I watch videos, it's weird. You know, I'm a surgery nerd. I watch Facebook videos, I watch them. I love them. You know, I like to read about surgery, I like to think about surgery, I like to do surgery, I like to talk about surgery. So I mean, I like to do a lot of different things too. But I mean, I feel very privileged to be doing something that I'm really passionate about. You know, we work at it, we work at it, and we get better at it, and we see that. So there's that immediate reward. And the relationship with the patients is unique. One thing I do - donor nephrectomy surgery - there's a long story there as well. But there's nothing like being involved in a life-altering interaction, a procedure that changes people's lives. I wouldn't trade it for anything. And I think when you see a student and that's the little hint that they get, then they should really think about it.
Shirin Towfigh 29:20
And what's the advice you give to your general surgery residents that want to go into MIS fellowship and a future? I feel that there's two types of candidates when we're interviewing for our fellowship. There's one bucket of candidates that just want to be better general surgeons and provide general care, acute care surgery, etc., with minimally invasive approaches. And then there's another one where they want to excel in a specific niche within MIS, whether it's bariatric or colorectal hepatobiliary, adrenal. How do you guide those and what do you tell them about the MIS fellowship?
Liane Feldman 29:56
That's a great question. I agree, that does seem to be how things have evolved. We also have that group that wants to be foregut surgeons. Well, benign foregut surgeons, as a specialty - or hernia, but you know, of course.
Kevin El-Hayek 30:19
Everyone wants to be a hernia surgeon.
Liane Feldman 30:21
And everyone wants to be an HPB surgeon.
Shirin Towfigh 30:24
Yes, that would be their second choice.
Liane Feldman 30:25
Yeah. That's so hard. I don't think we specifically seek out any specific person. I like when a person at that stage - and that's the nice thing about fellowship - is that you've have some idea of what you actually want. And I think for our fellowship, specifically at that point, we're here to design something for our fellow that will meet their needs. I think you're right about the acute care surgery, though. I think it's a great skill set to have when you're doing emergency general surgery. I know SAGES has an acute care surgery Task Force and we do have a lot of stuff on that. But I think that's one of the big, big skill sets that we use every day.
Kevin El-Hayek 31:19
So by the time this podcast drops, we will have successfully completed the first in-person SAGES meeting since the beginning of the pandemic, and the deadline for abstracts for 2022 will be September 24, which is like a few weeks after that. Yikes. So you will be presiding over the meeting in Denver, Colorado, March 16 through 19, which is right around the corner as well. Your influence in shaping the meeting will also influence the flavour and funness of the meeting, let's say. So, I think one of the huge challenges year after year is putting together a program with new content. And that's certainly going to be a little bit more challenging, given how close these meetings are between 2021 and 2022. So can you tell us how the 2022 meeting planning is coming along? What's the theme? What are going to be some of the new features that will make us get those abstracts in on time?
Liane Feldman 32:26
Yes, please get the abstracts in. This August meeting, obviously, it was postponed from our normal spring meeting with the hope that we would be able to be in person. And then we have six months to the next meeting. Hats off to SAGES staffers who keep it all under control. They're planning, they've this meeting and last year's meeting, too, the one that went virtual, which was Dr. Pryor's meeting, was planned and replanned I think three times, and this one's planned and replanned three times. And who knows what's going to be for 2022. I think we're getting better; we have a little bit more of a hybrid option, but by necessity, for this one - for 2021. 2022: The theme is "Welcome Home to SAGES". We were hoping that we would be - and we still hope obviously - that we'll be at a different phase of the pandemic. I think the bottom line is we need to learn how to deal with the pandemic. It's gonna be here for a while; that's what we've learned. And we need to, as an innovative surgical society, figure out how to deliver a safe, educational, fun meeting ... I think SAGES is so much about the community that we have. And I think that's why so many people are just really looking forward to being together in person. We just get so much energy from - and at this stage of the pandemic - the emotional long haul of the pandemic - is there too, and trying to get excited about things, SAGES is energizing, so I think the theme of the meeting hopefully will still be "Welcome Home to SAGES." We have Archana Ramaswamy, J. Greenberg as our chairs. The meeting gets planned quite far in advance. So most of the meeting is already fleshed out. And I think it'll have all the great things that people expect from SAGES, as well as some new things. One of the things that we did a little differently was we did a lot of taking ideas from our committee members and members. And there were just amazing, amazing new ideas that came through from there. So, hoping it attracts everybody; I know it will. And looking well looking forward to it. And yeah, it's gonna come up really fast, like you said.
Shirin Towfigh 34:57
Well, we're super excited about that. So you've been president for ... it's kind of odd because you're president for next year, even though we still haven't had this year's meeting yet. But what have you found was the biggest kind of lessons learned in moving to that position and dealing with such a huge meeting - international actually meeting?
Liane Feldman 35:22
I'm not sure it's a lesson learned. I've had the opportunity, I've been on the executive committee, through my own choice, too, because I felt that if I got the opportunity to be president, I really wanted to make the most of the opportunity. It's such a privilege to have that platform, you know, having been the treasurer as well (which any other unsolicited advice would be being the treasurer is the great way to understand an organization). So, I don't know that I had lessons learned so much as that I continue to really be just inspired and energized by SAGES. One of the, I guess, lessons learned, was even after a year of Zoom meetings, and how much they take out of you if they're more than, like, 30 minutes long. I recall the board meeting we had in the spring right at the handover from Horacio [Asbun] to me. And it was literally like an eight hour Zoom meeting.
Kevin El-Hayek 36:24
That sounds painful.
Liane Feldman 36:26
But you know, we do have 42 committees and task force. [Kevin says Yeah, that's true.] And we have like, 800 committee members.
Kevin El-Hayek 36:32
I didn't mean that in a bad way.
Liane Feldman 36:34
No, it's it is amazing. And the amount of work that's done by our volunteers, and the same for you guys, I mean, what are we doing here? This is the middle, you know, you're in the middle or towards the end of your day, we're having this conversation, you're going to then edit it, and work on it and have that thing to contribute to SAGES. I'm always just so blown away.
Shirin Towfigh 36:59
I mean, I was looking forward to this all day, actually.
Liane Feldman 37:01
I was too. [Shirin says Highlight of my day]. Yeah. But, you know, the amount of work that people do, and that's why I'm not surprised by it, because we've all done it. We've all done that, because we get the pleasure out of it and the pleasure of planning something and see it in action. The other thing is, I've learned so much through SAGES. I mean, of course, technical stuff and surgery stuff, but just the leadership stuff. And now as Chair of our department and Surgeon-in-Chief - I started that role two months before the pandemic - I mean, just how to run a meeting, how to set out strategic planning, how to put a budget together, how to sell an idea to your colleagues who might be not so sure they want that idea. It's like, everything I learned about leadership, I learned at SAGES type of thing. It's to go to the board meeting and hear the reports from every committee - maybe even the ones that aren't in the sunshine all the time that do the kind of background work that just needs to be done. I just find it super inspiring to hear and I get a lot of energy from it. And that's why I hesitated a bit, because I'm not surprised by that. But I do feel, as president, just so much in the middle of it. And I'm very grateful for the opportunity to do that.
Kevin El-Hayek 38:30
So Sharon and I had a great time getting to know, Horacio [Asbun] more. And of course, I've looked up to our SAGES leaders over the year. It really seems like a huge task to run a large and impactful society for a year. As these months fly by, how do you measure success for yourself and for SAGES?
Liane Feldman 38:55
That's a great question. We want to leave the society a tiny, tiny, tiny bit better than we received it, as I think every president and every exec[utive] and all the committee chairs and all the leaders and coaches do. Making those incremental improvements are really what moves SAGES forward. I really think SAGES is in a really good place. In terms of our values, the strategic plan that we have in place for the next few years. I do want to focus one of our themes this year is DEI, making sure that we talk the talk, but walk the walk. And as an innovative surgical society, I think we have been working on that for several years, starting with our We Are SAGES Committee and even before that. Hopefully, we will be in-person for a leadership retreat in November, where that will be one of our main themes. Also, just reimagining how the meeting is going to look, really being thoughtful about that; looking at the future of how the society is financed and is sustainable. So really just thinking of some of those larger strategic questions and making hopefully a contribution in educating our leadership, continuing to educate our leadership on issues of inclusion, diversity. I think if I'm able to do that and have a meeting in-person [laughs], then I'll hopefully have made some contribution to SAGES.
Kevin El-Hayek 40:31
I have no doubt. Just listening to you [and] the prior podcast with Ameer and Chad, these issues that you're about to tackle are just so massive and SAGES has always been right in the front with that stuff. So I really think it was a great answer. It was kind of what I was thinking as well. But thanks for sharing that.
Shirin Towfigh 40:57
Should we move on to the next segment? Yes. Okay. So we all love SAGES; we think it is the funnest meeting of the year for all the different specialties. As you know, we have a "We Are the SAGES" sing-off at the end of each session. So we have affectionately called this next segment the We Are the SAGES segment [Music plays to the tune of "We are the World", but words are "We are the SAGES"] in honor of the annual sing-off at the SAGES meeting. So we would like to know, some fun, crazy, memorable moments that you may have experienced at a SAGES meeting.
Liane Feldman 41:43
[Laughs]. Well, I mean, I'm thinking of some things that I probably [inaudible] ...
Kevin El-Hayek 41:48
The podcast is a PG podcast; it's rated as clean by Apple. [Shirin says So far.]
Liane Feldman 41:55
Yeah. I will say that SAGES is a really fun meeting. And I remember the last time we were in Denver, which is going to be a very, very, very long time ago, I probably did overindulge one of the nights and I really couldn't make it to my 7:30 [am] session. I think I either like had a paper, maybe even had a paper ... or maybe just my student had a paper - a resident - but 7:30 [am] was not going to happen, so that was memorable. But for me, I love the sing-off; it's just the epitome of what SAGES is about, and even just that sweaty mass of beer-drinking, dancing surgeons, I think if you are used to it, you're like, "Oh, it's the sing-off." But when you're at your first SAGES meeting, you are like, "Oh my gosh, what is this? I mean, this is not happening at fill-in-the-blank surgical society." So, I've many memories of just being in that kind of mosh pit, listening to that cover band, and then seeing SAGES people I respected or read all their stuff, read all their books, get up there and play guitar and do their karaoke. I'd say those are definitely [inaudible] SAGES memories for me, the sing-off. Well, McGill's always had a big component as part of the sing-off. Very talented group. Yeah, actually I will give kudos there to Chris Schlachta, who is also on the exec. You guys probably know him. He's a surgeon in London, Ontario. He does all the words; he's the one that does all the writing for the songs and he's really good at it. And we usually have like one measly rehearsal, but somehow it comes together. He's great at that.
Shirin Towfigh 44:01
Yeah, SAGES just karaoke is the best. Well, as we close, looking back on your career and seeing what's changed so far, we all believe there's gonna be some great things happening in the future. You're, of course, going to be our future leader and we're so looking forward to SAGES 2022. Again, for everyone, it's going to be in Denver, March 16th through 19th. That'll be the annual SAGES meeting. And yeah, it's been a long time since we've been back in Denver. I remember the Denver meeting. If I can pull some strings that September 24 deadline may push it back a little bit ...
Kevin El-Hayek 44:41
There's got to be an extension this year.
Liane Feldman 44:45
It hasn't even come up, I think because people are so focused on getting through next week. Then we'll talk.
Kevin El-Hayek 44:51
Okay. So, for the sake of Chad and Ameer, I also have to ask if you would possibly reveal the identity of the genius 'bot of the SAGES Twitter account. He, slash she, slash it is doing an amazing job.
Liane Feldman 45:10
Yeah. I agree. When they, it, he, she hears this, they will do their little robot smile and pat their little robot hands on their back. Yeah, I agree. It's great. And I think it really is the essence of SAGES, which is not to take ourselves too seriously at the same time that we know we're trying to contribute to the house of surgery. But, we also shouldn't take ourselves too seriously.
Announcer 45:52
Well put. I guess we won't get the answer. Maybe next time. Thanks again, so much, for your time.
Liane Feldman 46:02
Oh, thank you.
Shirin Towfigh 46:03
It was a pleasure, Liane. Thank you.
Liane Feldman 46:05
Yeah, thanks to you both.
Kevin El-Hayek 46:07
And that wraps up today's episode of SAGES stories. You can view the show notes for additional information mentioned on the show. Also, please visit sages.org for membership information and for the most recent news from our society. Follow us on Twitter at @sages_updates, and make sure you hit the like button and subscribe so you don't miss any new episodes. Tune in again next time and remember, you can't spell minimally invasive surgery without SAGES. [Music plays]