E138 Heather Patterson on her new book Shadows and Light, documenting COVID-19 and burnout
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Chad Ball 00:12
Welcome to the Cold Steel podcast hosted by Ameer Farooq and myself, Chad Ball. We consider it an absolute privilege to bring you guests from around the world who are truly experts in their craft. Our mission is to offer you a combination of not only masterclasses on clinical surgery topics, but also insights into achieving personal growth, productivity and fulfillment as both a surgeon and, perhaps more importantly, as a human.
Ameer Farooq 00:42
Sometimes it's hard to process what we've all been through, collectively, over the last 2 years since the start of COVID-19. We are facing tremendous strains on our health care system in Canada, and it's probably fair to say that many health care workers are facing burnout. Our guest for this week's episode had a really inspiring response to her own feelings of burnout and frustration. Dr. Heather Patterson is an adult and pediatric emergency physician in Calgary. She just released her book, Shadows and Light, which is a book of photographs that document the experience of dealing with a pandemic as a health care worker. We caught up with her to ask her about the motivation for the book, and what she's learned along the way. You can, of course, find links to both Dr. Patterson's website, and to where you can buy the book in the show notes. Can you tell us a little bit about where you grew up and where you did your training?
Heather Patterson 01:43
Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up north of Toronto in a little town called Sharon, which is actually about 45 minutes north of Toronto, and I did my medical school training in Kingston before I went to Calgary for my emergency medicine residency.
Ameer Farooq 01:59
What drew you to emergency medicine initially?
Heather Patterson 02:03
I was one of those people who liked everything. I found choosing a specialty quite difficult. I love surgery. I liked internal medicine. There was something in almost every specialty that I could appreciate. And what I realized during that time, because I liked so many different things, that perhaps a generalist career would be more in line with how I appreciated medicine. And then once I started doing electives in emergency medicine as a medical student, I appreciated the team dynamics in [emergency medicine], and the cognitive challenges of undifferentiated medicine. And I would say those things have persisted. I really do enjoy practising emergency medicine.
Chad Ball 02:43
You recently put together a very impressive collection of stories and photographs and prose that surrounded some of the events of this recent COVID pandemic. And we're curious, to start us off, how you frame that experience, and what drew you to start to look at that in the way that you did.
Heather Patterson 03:10
I think the truth of this whole project — being in the hospitals, doing photography, making images and sharing stories — was a little bit different than perhaps most people expect. I actually started this project process before the pandemic hit. And it was because I was in a place where I was feeling burnt out. And I was looking for a way to create a visual reminder about why I make the choice to show up every day; about the purpose and the privilege of practising medicine. And the pandemic arrived smack dab in the middle of that approval process that I was going through with Alberta Health Services. And by the time I had gained permission to start making photographs at the 5 hospitals in Calgary, the leadership team had said to me, you know, "It would actually be great if you would photograph across the spectrum of experiences in the system, so that everybody can see the hard work, the teamwork and the excellence that's happening behind the doors of the hospitals." And so it went from a small, emergency department, wellness-based project to being much greater and more extensive, and more inclusive with all of the people who work in the hospitals.
Ameer Farooq 04:18
So people have different responses to feeling burnt out; you know, all those clichés about Middle East crises come to mind. You know, people buy cars, people take sabbaticals. What was it about actually creating a book, and particularly taking photographs, that you felt just had, you know, had the relevance or spoke to you in terms of dealing with your own burnout. I mean, you write about that beautifully in, kind of, the intro to your book.
Heather Patterson 04:46
I find, in general, that things in my life when I'm facing challenges, I move towards being productive. I'm not very good at sitting in 1 place when things aren't going well, and so it felt like a natural process to find something to do, to create; something that would be challenging that I could learn through. But I think I was still surprised, as I went through this project, to see how dramatically it impacted my perspective. And when you think about photography as an art form, we looked at the photo that comes at the end of that, but photography is actually as much about the process as it is the end product, and I think it was the process that helped me. It was about intentionally slowing down, being very careful with my observation, watching for details, life, connection, emotion. And doing that in my home environment, in the hospital, gave me a sense of clarity about what we were doing, the importance of our work and how we were impacting each other and our patients. And I think it was that process that kind of pulled me along through this burnout to a place where I actually feel like perhaps more than ever, I appreciate the people I work with, and the work that we do.
Ameer Farooq 06:00
There's so much I want to unpack there, but perhaps from a very mundane point of view, how did you actually get permission to start on this project? Because I know, all the hospital systems are rightfully quite concerned about patient confidentiality, and all those kinds of concerns. So how did you actually go about getting permission to do this project?
Heather Patterson 06:22
So I approached this like I would an academic project; I went to the literature and looked for evidence of using art as a way of sharing stories, looking at that and how it would impact people's wellness. And there isn't a lot of literature to support that, but the small amount that I did, I used to create an academic-style proposal, and I brought that forward to, first, my emergency department leadership, and then worked all the way through senior leadership of Alberta Health Services. And in addition to that, because nobody has ever proposed a project like this before in Alberta, I worked through privacy and legal ethics and communications to really set some very careful parameters, so that the net result was a project where people felt well-informed, respected and safe. And part of that, for me, was having a great understanding of how to consent people. So, each person who is identifiable in the images — and that means that they would be able to recognize themselves or any part of their body — were consented extensively to participate. And I think, because there was such diligence around that area, and that my project principle was really to put people first and keep that at the forefront, the leadership of Alberta Health Services were willing to move ahead and take this risk doing this project.
Chad Ball 07:50
That's so interesting. Did you have a fair number of people that declined or was everybody, for the most part, enthusiastic when you approached them at the patient level?
Heather Patterson 08:01
So I did a bit of a pre-screen, so I didn't have a lot of people who declined. And part of that was, number one, I approached people who would be able to consent, so, certainly those who had capacity to understand. So that was my first screening. And I would ask nurses and physicians where they thought the patient was at; if they felt that it would be appropriate at that time. And secondly, I worked really hard to ensure that I wasn't being invasive. So if people were having a difficult time, or I got a sense that the family perhaps wouldn't be happy participating from the individual, then I very quickly stepped away. This, again, was really a project about the people, and so making sure that it was not invasive for them personally was a really important step.
Chad Ball 08:54
That makes total sense. So I'm going to geek out here a little bit and publicly state that I have 0 talent at photography, but boy, oh boy, do I appreciate it though, at the highest level, very much like music. My comments, you know, would be the same. Tell us, how photography? Why photography? What's your background in it? How did the technical element of it come to you and go for you?
Heather Patterson 09:24
So, at a baseline, I think I come from a family of storytellers. And so both that visual storytelling, and as well as actually the physical telling of the stories, has been a big part of my childhood. We look at old photos, old slides. We tell the same stories. My children know all of our family history stories. And so I think that's kind of woven a bit into the fabric of who I am. And so I always carried a camera. And it was really when I had a university roommate who was an excellent photographer, now a neuroscientist at Oxford. He really encouraged me to pick up a camera and try it as an artistic medium. And I did, and it was great. We took pictures of landscapes primarily. But as you have children, there is not an option for getting up early or staying up late. They drain all of your energy. And that wasn't an option. So I turned towards doing more family photography and images of those people. But photographing in the hospital is incredibly difficult. My main tool as a photographer is light. And everyone who's been in a hospital knows that it is horrendously ugly. It is overhead fluorescent lights, nondirectional. There is nothing warm and inviting about making the images in the hospital environment. But I think, because I'm a physician, I'm in a unique position of understanding the subject matter. And that's the next step for photography is capturing not just what life looks like, but what it feels like. And it requires that deep understanding. And so, being a photographer and a physician allowed me to position myself in the right locations, to anticipate what was happening. But the technical aspects with the light shooting through my own PPE, into the eyes of other people that were covered in reflective surfaces and downward shadows from the lights, that took a long time to figure out. It took me quite a while to sort out how I could find a way to make facial expressions apparent, in order to make sure that we were capturing the emotions — what those moments felt like, not just a blanket what they looked like.
Chad Ball 11:35
How do you then take the photographs, which, you know, you chose to do in black and white, and with your style, and marry them with prose, with language and story? How does that process begin, and how is it fine-tuned through iterations of editing?
Heather Patterson 11:56
So I'm a bit of a black-and-white kind of person. I'm not, I've never really been the touchy-feely, hugging kind of person — working on that. And so in the process of doing this project, I had a wonderful fine art photographer mentor, and she's actually an army nurse in the US. And one of the things she said to me that I absolutely had to do was journal. I could not believe that was a suggestion to go along with photography. She's like, "Oh, I do not write, and I am not someone who's going to journal." But she really didn't [inaudible], so. Every day, when I photographed, I would write down the experience of what that felt like, the patients' stories, the staff's stories. And what it allowed me to do was go from seeing the images to understanding what I was experiencing, what people were experiencing, on a much deeper level. So I think that's where it started. And when I went to speak with publishers about creating a book, they were quite interested in my experience. And so I really drew on that journaling and written experience to start me along the lines of my own story. And I think what becomes important when you're writing is that you're authentic, and that you're vulnerable. So I think that process was quite difficult. I had a series of editors who were outstanding, who challenged me to dig deeper, to explain with much more detail than perhaps they would have originally. And again, it put me in that place of having to explore what I had experienced, at really a different level than I had intended, which is a great thing in the end. But the process itself was absolutely challenging.
Ameer Farooq 13:46
Yeah, I mean, you really get a sense of, looking at these pictures, in one sense, you almost get a sense of what you are like as a person, and not just about the people that you're taking photographs of, and you can kind of see some of your personality shine through. And, you know, like, one of the pictures that really struck me was this picture that you took of one of the [emergency doctors] and the intensivists were kind of standing there, kind of looking at each other holding hands. And they, you know, you mentioned in the caption that they had never worked with each other prior to COVID. And so, like, you get the sense from looking at the pictures and the descriptions that, like, the things that really matter to our people. And so I'm curious, what was the process — like, how did it feel to actually be in that moment, taking photographs of things that must have really spoken to you emotionally? And did it change your, sort of, relationship with what was going on, being behind the camera? And did it maybe change anything in the moment for the people who are involved as well?
Heather Patterson 14:56
So, thank you for that compliment. Yes, people are very important to me. And I think being behind the lens in a place where I normally feel more emotional detachment, which I think is key in emergency medicine, or in any medical situation in order to make difficult decisions with acute care of sick people. So being behind that lens absolutely made me experience that emotion of connection. It made me feel the importance of those relationship bits, even between physicians and other physicians, like the picture you're talking about; the husband-and-wife team. Those connection points became more salient. And in that, I think I gave them even more importance to myself. So as a physician, then taking that acknowledgement of the importance of our connection points as a team, I think that made me just more aware of it when I was working clinically. And so similarly, with the patients, I actually, as the photographer, did not have that same distancing that I would normally have if the patient was one of my own, because I never photographed one of my own patients, I consider that a conflict of interest. And so that connection to our patients and their families certainly impacted how I care for them. A real deep understanding that what we do with our patients and how we interact there, particularly when people weren't at the bedside, became even more of an important part of my practice. So taking that extra time to make sure the family was updated regularly had a good concrete understanding of the plan and how their family member was doing in the hospital.
Ameer Farooq 16:40
You know, I find it interesting that you say that, in some ways, when you were taking the photographs, you actually became more, sort of, emotionally invested in, kind of, the scenario and the situation going on. You know, like, there's some, a lot, a few pictures in the book of patients being prone. And that was particularly, you know, spoke to me too, because it's just, it's not, you know, if you've been there, you know what a crazy and powerful experience it is to have someone prone. Or, like, the other picture that really, you know, those really stood out for me was the picture, you know, people writing on the ICU doors. Like, that is such a powerful — profound and powerful kind of experience when you step back and look at it. And I'm curious about, like, when you're a clinician, you know, we talked about empathy, right, and having empathy with patients. Like, how do you balance this idea of being detached, you know, so that you can be a quote unquote good clinician, but then also being aware of the profound moments that we're being a part of in these patients' lives? And I'm also curious about how this relates to your burnout, because I think for many of us, and I don't know about you, but I think for many of us, a big part of burnout is when you stop feeling that empathy for patients and you stop caring about the patient in front of you. And you kind of exaggerate the detachment because you don't want to feel the pain of seeing, you know, the patient that you operated on now has metastatic cancer. So how do you balance that feeling of empathy, emotion, detachment, as both a photographer and perhaps more broadly, as a clinician?
Heather Patterson 18:23
Yeah, I think the first thing is that — you outlined that beautifully — I mean, I think burnout is something that is so complex, and it's that interplay of systems and personal issues, and everybody's experience is different. But that uniting feeling of detachment is absolutely present. And I think that my photography work allowed me to step away from that. It allowed me to feel things in an environment where I would normally suppress that. And it was interesting, because I was seeing more tragedy; you would think that perhaps it would actually cause the opposite, where I would want to be more guarded and more personally protective. But I think what it did was it actually created, it created more of an empathetic response. Because I didn't have to make those decisions. I could just be another person at the bedside. But then to balance that and create that in my career. I think that's a bit trickier, because we do need that professional detachment. So for me, I am now more diligent about acknowledging the fact that we're managing a very difficult, challenging case. I do half adults, half pediatrics, and running pediatric resuscitations, and having children of my own, having parents stand beside me grieving the process; that is an emotional situation. And I cannot experience emotions in those moments; my job is to care for that patient. There is nothing else that I want to focus on at that time. But for me, now, I can acknowledge that and say, "Wow, this is horrendous. I don't like this. I've got it." And later on, I will then take the time to feel the case and to let myself feel lousy about it and experience that, and I debrief it with my husband, who's also an emergency physician, I use my artistic outlets as a way of managing, and I exercise. And the combination of those things now has put me in a much better place, I think, rather than just pocketing that horrendous and sometimes traumatic experience in the closet of your soul and never processing it. I think that's the, for me, the danger of leaving it there is becoming burnt out again.
Chad Ball 20:39
I think that's so well said, and we can certainly learn a lot from the mechanics of what you just said and what you suggested. I'm curious — you know, there's so many beautiful stories, and obviously photographs, in your book. Is there one or two that particularly stands out to you that you're comfortable to chat about?
Heather Patterson 21:15
Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a couple of things that stand out. So one of the things that I learned in this project is really the juxtaposition of joy and tragedy and how those things can be side-by-side and actually accentuate moments of beauty within each of them. So, starting with some of the tragic moments. There is a gentleman who I met, who did not survive, and his name is Sam. And I met Sam on the day that he was in hospital and received his email that he was going to be vaccinated. And he had a stable underlying medical problem, and so he had been off on medical leave through the first and the second wave, but was awaiting an extension of that leave for the third wave. He worked in a grocery store, and Sam loved his community. I think that's what stood out, because I've stayed in touch with his family, I've been to a celebration of life. And he was a people person, and when his work at the grocery store, when his colleagues called for help and said, "We cannot staff this," he felt compelled to help his community. And as an essential worker, he went to work for 3 days, and he acquired COVID. And the thing about Sam that was interesting when I met him is that he shared his story, and he wanted to share his story, but he was equally, if not more, interested in everyone else's story. And he had a profound impact on the people who cared for him, the people who were involved as nonclinical support staff being in his room. He was an incredible human. I'd stick my head in every now and then and say hello to him. And I hadn't been at the hospital in his hospital for about a week. When I popped my head in to see how he was doing, he was gone. And I had this moment of real celebration where I thought, "You know what? This is fabulous. Sam has gone home," and carried on to the ICU where I was planning on photographing for the morning. And I walked into a room where a patient was being moved from the prone to the supine [position]. I was standing at the head of the bed and photographing the incredible efforts and teamwork. I love photographing proning; it is an exceptional, exceptional event to photograph. And as they turned the patient, I saw that it was Sam. And it was a moment of devastation — I could not believe that he had changed so dramatically in the short time that I hadn't seen him. And I I love that story. And I share that story out of respect for all the people in the hospital and outside of the hospital who put themselves in harm's way, who served in their community and who left a real gap, a real hole, in their family's lives. And I think honoring those people is such an important part of this project as well. And so I often think about Sam and his family and his sacrifice, and remember that what we all do is important and impactful in the lives of the people that we're around. But I juxtapose that with stories of joy. And if you look at the picture of a birthday party celebration, I put that beside it because it was roughly a few months apart. And I met a gentleman named Jim. He'd been told he was going to die on the day that I met him. And so I had that sense of, oh, here we go again. Am I really going to put myself out there and feel these tragic emotions again? And Jim told me he was turning 62 in a couple of weeks, and he told me he was going to survive to his birthday and he was going to have dancing ladies, so help him. I was like, "Dude, we don't bring dancing ladies to the hospital," like, "It is not going to happen." And I would check in with his family members or with Jim on a pretty regular basis because I was feeling a bit of angst about whether or not Jim would survive. And I was speaking to his partner, Judy, and she had said, "Oh, guess what? It's his birthday next week, he's going to make it." And so with the charge nurse on the COVID ward at the Foothills hospital, we arranged to have all of the staff come outside his room and dance, and they did the chicken dance. And he laughed and clapped. He FaceTimed his elderly mother and really celebrated with Jim, you know. And moments like that, you don't see them very often. But they're so important to look for, and to remember that positive impact that we can all have.
Chad Ball 25:50
Those are both 2 amazing stories. There's no doubt in your book is absolutely chock full of them. I'm curious, what is your ultimate goal? And you touched on it initially a little bit, but in terms of the the end position of this book, how do you want it to impact people? And how does that align, maybe, with your intent when you started the process compared to when you ended it?
Heather Patterson 26:19
So I think the the start and the end goal remains the same from a health care perspective. My goal was to create a wellness-based project; something that would inspire us to remember why we get up every day and do this job, on the days that are good, on the days that are bad and on the days that are somewhere in between. What we do is so impactful. Our work is incredible. And I want people to be able to see themselves and realize that we do great work, and and it is so valuable. And so I hope that that message shines through, and also that it gives a sense of hope for people who might be also experiencing burnout. I learned that it is not a sentence to your career. I found ways that moving from burnout towards a place of wellness actually points me in the direction of career longevity and satisfaction. And I may experience symptoms of burnout throughout my career, but I know now the trajectory. And I hope that this book allows people to not feel alone in that process, because I think it is quite isolating. From a public perspective, I hope that it moves people from statistics back to the individual. COVID became so highly politicized over the last 2 years, that I think people forget; they get wrapped up, similar to what we do with burnout, in the systems issues and the politics. But what it comes down to is the people. And so I hope it moves us to see the individuals who are directly affected, but also us as people who work inside the hospital and what we experienced and that it can generate some empathy and a sense of togetherness again, rather than the huge divisiveness that COVID has become.
Ameer Farooq 28:05
I must say the pictures that you have of the other staff in the hospital, there's one of the, this nurse, I think, what's her first name? Sherry, maybe?
Heather Patterson 28:15
Yeah.
Ameer Farooq 28:16
Yeah, you can just see, she's wearing a mask that she has that like, you know, what we've all come to become very used to which, which is like the pock marks on your nose from wearing an N95 mask all day, every day. How have you found the response from other colleagues? Like, when you told people you were doing this, and then when you were actually there in the space taking photographs, what did your colleagues, kind of, say to you? Were they surprised? Were they supportive? How did that put up?
Heather Patterson 28:46
People were very supportive. I started in the emergency department because I think I needed to get my feet underneath me as well. And that was an easy place to start. People were quite keen to participate and often actually would text me or email me and say, "When are you going to be there?", "Make sure you're there when I'm there." It was a bit of a morale boost I think, because it was an acknowledgement of what we were doing. And as I moved throughout the hospital system, I found that almost universally — and, in fact, people who originally said, "I don't like my picture being taken," and would shy away a little bit, actually started seeking me out saying, "I'm good now. Take my photograph." And so, I would say the staff response was universally positive.
Ameer Farooq 29:31
You know, you were saying about one of your objectives was for the public to really, to sort of understand the human faces behind this pandemic that we've been through. And I have to say, some of your pictures are you know, there's a political aspect to them. You know, you have some pictures there of some physicians looking outside while there are protesters outside and police corralling protesters outside the hospital. What was it like to photograph those moments? Like, how did you personally feel in that moment? And do you think there's a way forward from the, you know, the polarization that we're having, specifically around COVID and maybe more generally in our society? And I know, that's a huge question.
Heather Patterson 30:16
Definitely a huge question. So firstly, I actually, at the beginning of this project, set out not to be political, which is ironic, because I think any documentary photography work is political, because you are showing a controversial time in history, often. And I think that it is an important part of the story and an important part of our experience to have walked through protesters. And the day that I photographed them, I had actually spent a day photographing people who were vaccinated and dying in the ICU. And so to come outside, and then fear, I mean, a bit fear for your safety. I mean, you drive through that crowd as they shook their fists at us. It was very, it was very difficult. And I actually moved more back to a place of detachment, because I didn't want to experience the anger and frustration as I was photographing. But I think it still comes through, that sense of, I can't believe this is happening, as I was photographing from the parking garage at the Foothills hospital. How do we move forward from this? Man, that is such a difficult question. I wish I could compel everybody to see the individuals. I would love to be able to convince people to see the truth. But I know that convincing people isn't the right answer. I think for me, living by my own personal values, showing kindness and compassion, remembering the individual, helps me move away from that frustration and place of anger towards people who were protesting and perhaps not helping us out in the hospital environment at all. But how to create that sense of unity again as a people? That's a great question. We had that sense of unity, it felt like very transiently at the beginning of the pandemic, where people noticed what others were going through. So perhaps maybe that's the secret; maybe it's just having that awareness of what's happening outside of your own life, looking at your neighbour, your friend, your colleague, your family member, and recognizing what their experience is, and generating empathy for those other people. Maybe that's the start, right? It doesn't have to be banging pots and pans outside the window. But maybe it's an acknowledgment that everybody has a story.
Ameer Farooq 32:46
I find that such a powerful and moving way of describing it. You know, I think that's really what your book has done in many ways. It kind of reminds me some ways of — I don't know if you've ever seen that Facebook page, Humans of New York, where —
Heather Patterson 32:59
Yeah.
Ameer Farooq 33:00
Yeah, they take pictures, and they have this caption of, like, what that person is going through. And somehow, for all the, like, statistics about something, you know, hearing someone's individual story and looking at a picture of their face, or their hand or whatever, it speaks to you in a different way. So, really, you know, congratulations on that. What's something, you know, that you've learned from this process? Was there anything surprising or different than what you were expecting to get out of this project that you ultimately learned from doing it?
Heather Patterson 33:33
I learned a lot of different things. I a key lesson that I carry with me is to have a component of optimism; to look for moments of joy or connection or goodness. And you can do that every day, everywhere. There's always something good. And I think I learned that for my career, longevity and satisfaction, I don't need my entire clinical day to be spectacular, but I do need to find at least 1 good thing that kind of pulls me along and reminds me about why I'm doing what I'm doing. And that's a real key learning piece for me. I was really surprised by the impact that this project has had, both personally and with my colleagues. And I think I learned with that the power of authenticity and vulnerability. It was not my intention to write a book, sharing that I was burnt out. In fact, when I first spoke to some people in my department about it, the consensus was: Don't tell anyone. So I wrote a book about it. And so I think that it really illustrates the importance of having real conversations, of being authentic with our colleagues and the impact that can have. So those were 2 really big learning points for me that have impacted how I move forward.
Chad Ball 34:48
I'm curious, you know, now that you've so beautifully married language and stories with these incredible photographs, what are your plans going forward? Would you see doing this sort of project or using this method of communication again? Or is this a one-off for you? What's next down your road?
Heather Patterson 35:12
I think I am open to what comes my way. I haven't decided the specifics of my next project. But I most certainly want to continue being a visual and written storyteller in the hospital setting. I think that it can be a variety of different things, whether it's in developing countries, highlighting the hard work that people are doing in the stories there, or in our Canadian hospitals across the country, showing the unique aspects of different programs, different specialties, again, to highlight that exceptional work that's being done. I think there's a lot of different applications, and over the upcoming months, as this book takes flight, I hope to be able to engage in conversations with people about how I can photograph in those different centres across Canada, in operating rooms and clinics, really, in order to promote wellness, to share our stories and to create a visual history about what Canadian health care looks like. We don't have a lot of images from an inside perspective, and I think it's been an incredible honour and privilege to be able to do that, and I certainly hope to continue.
Chad Ball 36:22
Where can our listeners buy your book? How can they access it and more importantly, maybe, access you?
Heather Patterson 36:30
Yeah. So, the best way to find me is either on Instagram, which is heather.l.patterson, or my website, which is heatherpattersonphotography.com. That directly links to me, and I'm always happy to hear from people, answer questions, talk about how I can come to your centre. And then to find the book, perhaps easiest in Canada is Indigo, and you can find that online. Amazon is also a great option. And then if you're from the United States, you can look at Barnes and Noble. There's independent bookstores across the continent that are carrying the book, which is very exciting, but most reliably, and probably the most convenient, is to order online through those different book locations.
Chad Ball 37:18
That's fantastic. You know, Heather, having listened to the podcast, you'll know that we always close it out with a common recurring question for all of our guests. And so, for you today, tell us: you know, if you were to go back and talk to your younger self, whether that's as a trainee or whether that's starting as a junior faculty when you did, what sort of advice and commentary would you offer yourself?
Heather Patterson 37:45
I think I would tell myself to take myself less seriously — I really do. I think I felt I think I felt the weight of my training. But I think that remembering to have joy and have fun in life, to have perspective and remember that there is life, both in and outside of medicine, would have been a great piece of advice. Remember to maintain your hobbies and stay connected to your friends and family as a way of balancing out the stressors of your career.
Ameer Farooq 38:27
You've been listening to Cold Steel, the official podcast of the Canadian Journal of Surgery. If you liked what you've heard, please leave us a review on iTunes. We'd love to hear your thoughts, comments or feedback, so send us an email at [email protected] or tweet at us @CanJSurg. Thanks again.